This episode is a conversational journey through creative flow, reflection, motherhood, & connection. A level of gorgeous truth that just sears into your soul.
Melinda has created her business around experiences that bring her love, joy, curiosity, creativity, and connection. Photography, writing and mentoring conversations are her spaces to explore with curiosity and creativity in a container women clients enter into with their own curiosity and openness to see themselves. She has created from a foundation of mothers and women having space to be. TO BE. And for herself to study life, mothers, and what she offers the world with her own wisdom and knowledge. Her business and life is exactly how she creates it and she is creating it one step at a time understanding; as women we have multiple facets, to honour each one, and to understand everything is reflected back- everything.
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Melinda's book: Remember - words for the beautiful mess that is motherhood is available here
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to be in that space of letting it flow you have to allow yourself into that space there is hard work I did 19 years of writing and then it seems like she wrote herself in three days yeah but it was 19 years writing all of my emotion my motherhood story my like everything out at times it was the hardest work I had ever done I had done the hard yards my whole motherhood and so it looked like within you know three months that I just popped this book out it's the same with photography you take photos every day you refine your eye you refine your voice like what captures your attention at 20 probably isn't going to cut your attention at 43. what's important to you what your gaze is drawn to the emotions everything that is the hard work it's not just the settings and the the type of camera you've got the hard work is devoting surrendering and going I'm just gonna play with it I'm just gonna explore it and for humans that's really hard because it may not have a purpose you may take all these photos and as we've said like maybe no one else is going to see them but that will the photographer for the creative for the mother for the wife for the that can be the hardest book you've ever done some of those photos that we can't bear to look at like if we then have a photography business and we go and photograph mothers and families we're giving them that yeah we're giving them our experience of a really hard time and we've worked on ourselves like as we said we're the ones going first it's hard work but I think to get to that place of where it flows it's not gonna float all the time I may never experience it again I would love to but I'm not going to put that pressure on myself help me see as a podcast that redefines the word Vision through vulnerable and real conversations my own private introspective ramblings about the things that I think about in the wee hours of the morning and my deep core belief that your nothingness is your everything and all you have to do is see I'm Bianca Mora I'm your host I am an educator a photographic artist and I believe that your daily photo habit can be the key to unlocking the ability to be more present in your everyday life and live deeper into your intention and purpose we're not about the small talk here grab your coffee get cozy and let's talk hello and welcome to another episode of help me see today whoo today's an intense one heads up I absolutely[Music] loved this conversation um I didn't cut a single minute of it actually I rarely ever cut anything but on the show we have Melinda Edwards and she is just a light in this world um I feel like we talked for two seconds and it was two hours and this is the first time we ever connected in person um I'm going to read a little bit about her that she sent over just so you have a little bit of an idea of her magic before we dive into the conversation that we had so Melinda has created her business around experiences that bring her love joy curiosity creativity and connection photography writing and mentoring conversations are her spaces to explore with curiosity and creativity in a container for women clients entering into their own curiosity and openness to see themselves she's created from a foundation of mothers and women having spaces to be to be and for her to study life mothers and what she offers the world with her own wisdom and knowledge her business and life is exactly how she creates it and she is creating it one step at a time understanding that as women we have multiple facets to honor each one and to understand everything is reflected back everything I mean I cried multiple times I laughed my mouth was open actually with a serendipitous in that regard is that I don't know if you are a listener who watches the videos on YouTube but for some reason it didn't go back and forth to her screen and my screen and it's all just her so sorry Melinda if that's disturbing to you but my screen never pops up um I always hide my the self view on my zoom because I never want to get distracted by my own face and um it might show if there's some episodes where my hair is doing something insane you're like why doesn't she just fix that it's because I never look at myself anyway this conversation um really did something to my soul and as soon as we were done talking I just felt the biggest amount of like urgency of like when will I talk to her again it felt so good we talk a lot about motherhood we talk a lot about creating um she's an author we talk about how the book that she wrote just flowed out of her in like three days um it's just an insane story and I'm honored that she shared everything that she shared with us it's really a really beautiful conversation so we're just going to Dive Right In um before we dive in what it what do I have to say my my head's up for our second ever photo yoga session is this Wednesday at noon eastern time again this is a free co-working space that is really flexible and open to anyone who wants to come and do some photo work um ask questions maybe I'll be sharing my screen and editing just making space for connection and actually doing the damn thing and editing those photos that you mean to edit but never get to that's what I use the space for um and then also before we head off I will say because this is the last Wednesday before next week I am a speaker in this beautiful Summit called The Power of you Summit it is April 4th through 6th and um there's over 30 speaker presentations going on in that time it's free I will put the link in the show notes so if you're interested um and if you're on my email list you'll get an email about this I'll send a little bit more information there and if you just want the link go ahead and click the link in the show notes and you can learn more about how you can tune in and soak up just beautiful information from so many Unique Individuals all with the common goal of pointing you inward to your own um brilliant wisdom okay that is it so now on to another brilliant individual Melinda Edwards I hope you enjoy this conversation um and I'm giving you a virtual podcasting hug because you might feel a little tender after this one as I did enjoy okay hello hello and welcome to another episode of help me see today I have Melinda Edwards on and I don't even really know how to tell the story of how I don't know how I came to find her all I know is that I've been chomping at the bit to talk to her ever since I came across her work and her lovely self um but there's been a lot of life in between then but I'm so happy that we're here now and we were just getting started and don't know what the[ __ ] to talk about so hello we have so many things to talk about I know where do we start what is okay so I want to always allow for what is like most like tingly on top so if there's something on top let's just Dive In and we'll get to other things eventually but if not I really want to hear about your book and how it came to be because you pulled a card before this conversation and it just like oozed out that experience that I that I know of what I know of it so what do you think anything else to talk about before we put on the book no let's do that it's a very you know like you see these things on Instagram and you're like oh or social media or you know and you're like oh they've just done it really easy like it seems to have just come from nowhere um or you know like it's just you kind of compare and you're like oh uh you see these posts or stories and everyone's really excited and you know like they're like look what I've done and I was very much like that and I actually had a few comments from authors that have like struggled and feel as though they've done the hard yards to like write their book I had some quite nasty comments in my DMs about well look at you you've written a book in no time 200 copies two and you've got like 300 followers like how did you do that and um I was in such a state of you know what I can't even actually describe it the book her cell she created herself so when I say I was on Instagram going look what I've created that was the stage that I was at because I hadn't created her she literally came through me and when I say that I have written a journal a diary scraps of paper in anywhere I could find a blank page I have written for ever like I remember writing in a journal when I was like six years old and so I have journaled in this office like that cupboard has journals I believe that covered his journals I have a bookshelf holy [ __ ] journals like they're everywhere and there are also a lot that have ended up in the fire pile that I've burnt and I never want to see ever again um so my motherhood journey is literally recorded the good the bads the traumatic everything in all of these journals and on the 8th of July 2021 I woke up and I I can't describe the feeling it was like actually it was like a crating you know when you crave something in pregnancy and you have to have it I risk my life for a for an orange juice one time yeah literally like berries that you have to have it that was that was me on the 8th of July I had to come into my office and I pulled this office apart it was like I was it was kind of like I was manic I just called all of these books out and I sat at this desk at this like at this computer and I was going through these books and I had a blank screen up and I would read something and I would look up and the words would just blow out through my fingers it was like I didn't need to even think about it um and that the words on the paper were nothing like what was coming out on the screen it was like they were alchemizing as it was like coming through me so I've had a very both of my boys are very different my first son he made himself known from conception like I swear I knew the moment I conceived that child and then I was sick he we had a terrible pregnancy together he wanted to come early he was standing on his feet he was born by cesarean section like he the first 12 months he was just like this is me and you have to get to know me but he was very set in his ways he was just like I'm not changing for anybody and he's 20 now 21 in a few weeks and I look back and I'm like you have been this is you like you have been this way since conception and then my other son oh my God I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant um we had the easiest pregnancy like I literally sometimes would forget I was pregnant he slept from day one we never had a sleepless night he I could literally if we were going out I could literally pick him up and he would he would sleep like he was it like it's obviously and so all of this is in all my journals and so there's the struggles and the ease and there's the traumatizing parts and there's the celebration and when remember was coming through me she literally came through in three days the book was written in three days um and it was so it was such a state of just letting go and well they didn't let him go I didn't even know what I was doing I was just writing there was something else that was just blowing um and then yeah like I kind of when it was over it was over like at the end of three days I looked around and went oh god oh please mess up and that was it like that's when I knew the writing had stopped and I sat here and I was on Instagram and I was scrolling and I saw this lady dancing in this beautiful white dress anyway I clicked on it to see where she got the dress and she's an Australian author who had just published her book and she was dancing at her book launch and she had a list of the people that had helped her with a book like a list of credits um a designer because I went through and had a look at a book and I'm like oh that has such a beautiful book anyway I spent Indie a message I'm like hi I think I've just written a book you don't know me but I've just found your name and I think I've just written a book and wondering if you can help me and she I think she'd been like awful she was on holidays or something but she she messaged straight back and she's like I've just looked at my phone as like an off like an off chance that I would look at it and our relationship started like that day and remember came out in September it was the process of how she was written to how she arrived at people's homes was flawless every single step every single process you know as soon as I knew nothing nothing of self-publishing a book but it had never been a dream it had never been a thought in my head I'd never inquired to the process I had no idea and every single step with done with ease and grace and beauty and everything just Indie was like okay so what do you want people to look like and as soon as she said it I'm like it has to be you know this size so I want it to be like a companion to get it in a Mother's purse I want it to be you know like and I'm like where is I don't even know where this is coming from like and everything I was saying was just like flowing to be a good kind of possessed literally literally and then I was like oh I kind of know that yellow means remember and she's like okay and she's like what are you even gonna call the book oh I'm like oh and it was like I didn't even have to think about the name I was like oh did we think about that it's called remember it's the best book title ever like ever we've never spoken about that I'm like oh and it was like nothing had to be thought about it was like it was already it already was so I sent her the copy and we went through and we decided on exactly how she would walk and feel and I sent you know her all the words and then she sent me back just her work and the way she you know laid the words out and just the way she designed the book I mean do you get yourself from the cover do you I I never even saw the inside you could tell from the cover how gorgeous it is I have to like yeah like she just so when I got the first Unbound copy which is still my absolute favorite like it's it's still absolutely perfect it's Unbound it's all loose and you know just the way I would be framing every single one of those and hanging on well I'm actually doing I actually will be at the end of the year um Indy and I are going to do a print run of the pages and we're organizing it at the as we speak wait a minute what do you mean to like sell it like selling them like prints yeah yeah so it won't be a book it'll be the prince oh my God I'm so excited oh yeah the font choice too is beautiful oh my God yeah and so she just she just came through and there was no decisions like there was no I literally didn't have to make decisions and then when we went to printing indie's like oh there's this printer I want you to use they're high-end they're beautiful they work is stunning I'm like okay I'm cool and so she's like but they have like their wait list is months like it'll be months she's like let me get a quote like we'll see how we go and she's like I've got a couple of others we can go through I was like okay anyway she got onto the her favorite one and they're like oh actually we've looked at an opening we can like do it next week oh yeah okay okay oh my God because Andy was she was very like she walked me through the whole process she was like you know it's gonna take a few months it actually didn't from writing to it being put in the post was July to September and it was red Deepak chopra's the spontaneous fulfillment of Desire all right it's about Synchro Destiny this is like as you're talking it's just like slapping me in the forehead because I just read it so maybe maybe take a look at some point but it just sounds like I mean okay I have so many questions but please continue I don't want to interrupt and it was just at the time you know like posted it in Australia at the time nightmare it my book arrived within no time at all like they were like your deliveries on the way a day later with you like that was just unheard of in Australia at that time um I had like 300 followers on Instagram I sold 200 books um she went International straight away like I was I sent I think more copies internationally like us France New Zealand Canada um that I do in Australia um and when I was when I was at the post office sending her it just felt like she was in the right hands like it just it was almost like she teach the women because I only did a small runs that was 250 and it just even sending her it just felt like the right women were receiving her um it was incredible and what's the response been have you heard yeah I got feedback straight away um she's been called an oracle um there has been uh endless tears in my like DMS and video messages um of just women going it doesn't matter what page I open I I see myself or I recognize where I am at the moment or was just what I needed to hear today and that was so important to me and it wasn't even like I was thinking about it when I was writing it because I felt like I had I was just um konji that she came through um and I think the potency came from um the journals and the depths of my despair in some of those journals and the journals were never ever to see the light of day like no one was to ever read those journals there was you know like we went through a really hard time with my eldest son from 14 to 18. there was drugs there was running away there was you know like just we lost family we lost friends because you know just judgment and people just are like how do you race your child like this you know and we were like it was just the most terrible um it was the most terrible time it was the most I've learned ever as myself um in those depths of you know he would he would bring that midnight and say can you come pick me up and I didn't even know he wasn't here or you know that the highest thing that I wanted for my children was education and so you know we we put them in very good schools be lucky doubt um it was just this constant I have to love this child no matter what it actually it is this is his life he is learning I am learning he chose me as his mum for a reason and we just have to get through it and you know like now he looks back and he's like that was that's just our story like he's like I I had to do that for a reason and he's like now he's completely sober he doesn't touch alcohol at all he's completely focused he knows anyone's in mind he has yeah like it's just this kind-hearted and he was always quite harder that's the thing like you see kids going through this really hard time and you're like this isn't you and I think that's what uh what almost got me through on some days is like I know this isn't his heart and soul and I know at some point there has to be some point that that boy understands that and there has to be some point that his heart and soul picked in and he's like that's enough mate you've caused enough trauma um and that's that's literally how it happened he had a motorbike accident that nearly killed him um again we got a phone call from the hospital to say your son is in hospital he's unconscious um you need to come and he was on drugs and we went and then the hardest 12 months of our life after that because I was afraid that the drugs would get worse because he was in so much pain because he had broken bones he had no skin down the left side of his body he was had a head injury and it was actually that accident um that turned him inwards to his own heart yeah and all of that Within These journals like it was a lot deeper than that but that story Within These journals um and as I said like as I was reading to like nearly two years on from when I'd written it and some of them you know had gone back to when the boys were little but it was it was just alchemizing and healing for me as it was coming through um and even now like I read some of the pages and I remember the page in the journal that that came from and it it kind of owes me that that level of pain can cause that amount of beauty or reflection or you know just to be able to read the words that come from that in a completely opposite way so I know you said when you were kind of like looking at the journal pages and then writing you weren't it was just alchemizing you weren't even trying to put it through a filter is that what you're saying happens like from whatever you read whatever you wrote ended up being more more what like how would you describe it sorry let me read sorry I don't know can you see that no too loudly too loudly for your friends to put their dreams listen to their hearts during this time that was all I wanted but I didn't know that I was so so far in depression and fight or flight survival mode I unknowingly or unconsciously I suppose I had pushed every had pushed everyone away I didn't know that I needed friends I didn't know I needed people to cheer me on I didn't know I needed people to listen to my dreams even if it was the dream of having a healthy child but I didn't know I needed that I felt I needed to do you did actually you did a podcast on speaking from your words I I that flawed me because I cannot advocate for that any higher like yeah not everyone needs to know your story not everyone needs to know you from that wound you need someone if it's one person that is there while you're hemorrhaging from that wound don't wait for it to scab over like it doesn't have to you know when when you when you say speaking it doesn't have to be to thousands of people on social media yeah but it can just be one person that's that's something that I talk about when I when I talk about photographic practice and how sometimes people why would I want a picture of that like or where would I I would never want this is not every picture you take is not for print every picture you take is not for social media every picture you take is not for your child it is a medium in which you are able to access your subcon it is the only way that you can see what you see yes if you look at your photo scroll and just imagine yourself Zoom back fly up out of the room and look at it again yeah yeah it is what I call the way of bringing your 2020 hindsight like closest to you now as possible that is what it is and what you're saying is speaking from that fleshiness and that I feel like is so uh it's like so inadvertently shamed through that [ __ ] quote that I can't stand that I understand cognitively at multiple levels the share share from the wound but I mean it is such a specific a specific Kate use case that that is relevant if you're holding space for someone in a circle if you're holding space for someone in a therapy session yeah yeah like to make anyone feel as though that sharing before it's all tidy and they're healed and it's better I how would it ever get better no wonder you have an outpouring of like people are so thirsty for like realness and what is that but uh yeah and yeah I just I on some level creatively I don't know during this time I did some self-portraits and they weren't even self-portraits at the time it was like I had to like he said it's like no one else was going to see these photos I felt like no one was seeing me at the time I felt so lonely I felt so but I can't even you know like there was just there was nothing there was I I felt like I could not speak and on some level inside of me I needed to be recognized so I did I took self-portraits and there's some I literally can't look at now they are so painful they are so painful and at the time my son didn't want to be photographed at all um during those sort of four years and they like the photos I did take of him I had to be very sort of ninja-like about it and they will never see the light of day um because he did not consent to me taking those photos so you know um and even then and it's terrible to say about your child I actually don't like the photos of him of that time it does not look like him his eyes are dead he's just you know when you take a photo and you literally they're so powerful that you capture that essence of a person like people you know you can click on your phone and take a photo but when you are like you know when you're in it and you take a photo and it is the essence of that person and you just have to look at that and you're like oh I know that I know that person like I I feel like I know that person even if you don't know them that was these photos there was so much playing so much anger just the emotion in these photos and it was just they were dark photos and I'm like I actually never want to see my that version of my child but what is it I totally hear and I have empathize and I've had experiences where I take photos that I never even want to look at there's some photos that I've taken that like even when I'm scrolling to look at an old photo like and I know it's like coming in that time I'll like close my eyes like that amount yeah but like what does it feel like for you to know they exist you know what I mean and that and that I'm grateful they exist that'll never be deleted that will always be there um and even though I don't want to look at that version of my child and it's painful and even now when I look at it the feelings of that time literally come rushing back however I feel very privileged to know my child to that debt oh my God[Music] no it's so beautiful and it's just so freaking weird that this is the conversation we find ourselves in when this was not planned at all because just today I mean I had a morning I mean it obviously nothing compares what you're talking about right now but I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old my four-year-old is having like you know their stupid stuff at school where they're like saying he's below average blah blah I don't know whatever anyway so I was talking to my girlfriend about like how I think I need to find a new space for him like an alternative whatever I just oh my God don't get me started on that because I'll talk cheap but oh I I know I was just saying like there's stuff on the sheet where I'm like I see him do this all the time if he's not feeling comfortable to do that here this is not the space for him but whatever we're so we're talking and it's just so funny because my you said your boys are opposite my boys are so opposite like my two-year-old is like the most easy-going Savage he's like sick to he's like seventh percentile he's like this little Leprechaun but he thinks it's 12 feet tall my oldest one the four-year-old is like the most sensitive Soul who plays this head on my chest Mommy I Will Always Love You Mommy I'm like where am I going you're freaking me out oh my God anyway but I was talking to my friend who also has a son and we were talking about how okay and she's about to have a daughter now and I was like yeah you know I used to think before I and I was reading about before I was a mom what it was like to have like a waivers girl and whatever I watched way too many Gilmore Girls episodes in my day but uh I was like I always thought it was kind of weird when they said like oh a mother and her son a mother and her son but now I kind of I I get it even though I don't have a daughter because from from what I can tell like so far because even when I see them at this age like this young out in the world and the way they are with literally everyone else and then with me it's just so different and I just feel like a mother like sees like straight into her son's Soul yeah it's just like and no matter what no matter what beautiful wife who no matter what beautiful relationships they have in their life there is always something else this something else that comes before that they want to protect or serve or you know provide for someone else like there's always that filter no matter what but not with Mom and I just think that what you just said is like so true like the beautiful thing is like you turn that around and like you're like yeah and I I got to know him and he knows and like he sounds like he has that knowing too he does he does I think like exactly what you just said your first boy is very sensitive so Jack is Beyond like he is so sensitive so sensitive that he actually comes off as quite harsh sometimes um whereas Tom is very easy go lucky he's like the class clown he's you know like yeah but his sensitivity comes through in extreme protectiveness towards me um he's very thoughtful he's very like you know like he he's the first one to say to me how was your day did you have a good day like how old is he 17. he's 17. oh my God yes and you know like and getting back to the school thing so my boys went to Montessori that's what I'm looking into right now I don't know I will forever advocate for that it lets the personality come out so my boys are opposites they learn opposites Montessori Embrace that we did try a conventional school for Jack um from prep to grade two it broke his spirit um you know he was he was distraction he talked too much he was causing trouble he was bored you know every day I was getting notes or getting called into the classroom I'm like he is bored because he's done all the work he like this he's so sensitive he needs to move he needs to be engaged he needs to explore like and Montessori allowed that to a debt that I'm so grateful for because as soon as he got into that environment he thrived at the same with Tom he's not a book learner he needs to use his hands to learn and Montessori allowed that and again he thrived you know um and that I think as a mother to be able to recognize how our children need to be every day mm-hmm like it's not just getting into school and going you'll be right because they're there for so long it's so pivotal it's so influential like the power of the people that they're around all the time was really important to me um I did not want people telling my child you know like I'm for like you know I'm for you know pulling them up on things and you know like if they're doing the wrong thing of course you know having chat about it but for someone to be just constantly in this space knowing you're such a naughty boy and you wasn't an naughty boy he was he was bored out of his brain he was too advanced with the work that he was doing you know like he and they couldn't see that they couldn't they couldn't read his personality they couldn't understand that you wanted more just like he was he was a sponge that wanted to be filled up he didn't want to see it and just be passive um and I'm very grateful that ice did my ground and I'm grateful that I need my kids that well um and it's definitely to build that trust in your kid and for them to know that their mum has their back in that way and it will fight for them and you know not just put up with you know anything right we'll advocate for them and supports them and it builds a level of trust that when we were going through all that with debt he knew no matter where he was no matter what what he'd taken who he was with he could ring me and I would go and pick him up he knew that he could always come home and he knew that we were a safe space and you know like you were talking about like the kids act differently when they're with others absolutely they do because they come home and we are their safe space which isn't always fun it's not always fun it is hard it is hard and there's a page in the book that was it says you are your child's first home mm-hmm like a mother is their child's first home like they always will you know they they want to come back to us and not necessarily the house yeah but it's you know like my boys still even like you know if I'm not home they'll be texting me going where are you I was like I have a life they're 2017 and they're like I want to see you where are you oh my God there's like music into my ears I can't even tell you you know it's funny it's just making me think um a while ago I was on um someone else's podcast um it was the art of being a mom and she had asked me what I forget what she even asked me but what came out was that I didn't realize was there or I'd never at least said it um out loud was that like the most important thing to me in my motherhood like in my relationship with my sons is is this reciprocal feeling of like to know all of uh like for them to know all of me like to not to not feel like they grew when they grow up they start realizing things that they never knew or like for me to like hide all the bad stuff like you know and I never thought of it that way before until I said it then and I'm like yes it is so important to me that like they are never surprised by something they learn about me that's literally a page in my book that says you know women are multifaceted not all um besides of us with one shot shine bright 100 of the time and that is exactly where that came from I want my kids to see my life to see my tears I want them to know you know I'm a mum I'm a wife then desperately loves my husband you know I'm a sister and they see me with my sisters they see me you know with my girlfriends like I have such a beautiful tight knit group of women that I just adore and love and my boys have known them forever and they see how I am with my girlfriends and you know like I work you know at an emergency department and they see me as the woman that goes and works in an emergency department or you know that should work they're ever seeing me you know with my camera they were very much part of writing or you know creating remember like they knew the day I wrote it I was like we're sitting at the table we always no matter what we always have dinner together at the end of the day no phones just we all there's no phones allowed we all sit and we all have dinner together I was like I think I wrote a book and they're like what they write a book you think you're like telling them about it you're like and it's your fault y like they've seen me writing my journals they know that there's journals here and they want to read it like go ahead um yeah like they they've seen me publish a book like they were at home we'd picked him up from school and he was there when I was posting the books internationally like he was standing behind me and the lady's like this is really cool he's like yeah that's my mom oh you know like they're the things you know they've seen me cry when in deep grade you know I didn't hide my anger and my frustration and my tears when we were going through all this with Jack and then they've also seen me you know like the the mom on the sidelines at Cricket or football and I'm cheering and I'm like the loudest one and I'm like you know Security's coming up going you can't keep yelling you know like my boys are like and that's what I love about our relationship they that's exactly right I never if I die today I want my boys to know they knew me yeah and it's only natural that that that is mirrored and that they're not afraid to show you any part of them exactly exactly and you know when you've got that reflection back that's another page in my book everything is reflected back everything um when you've got that reflection of honesty and Truth coming back the depth of the relationship with your kids it's so cool like as they're getting older like I keep reading these things of like oh you only have your kids for 18 Summers no you don't your kids aren't going anywhere if you've got that relationship of openness and honesty and fun and they know they can cry like I've had you know like Jack had his heart absolutely broken by a girl I was the first one he rang you know like he cried the whole way home he literally you know like I keep seeing these photos of you know toddlers And it's like oh this will be you know what if this is the last time I picked my child up please I literally sat on the lounge and I had my child in my arms after a girl had broken his heart at like 19. oh they will if you've got that just openness and you have to let them see you so that they feel safe yeah themselves to show you yeah you must go first you have to go first like you're the example you are the example and it it's just it's a reciprocal thing like you said like they have to see you lead that's so funny the other day I don't even know where I was or who I was talking to what venue it was at but I think it or maybe I don't know um talking about that mirroring and just you must go first and it's like in a session when you're like how do you get someone to be natural it's like by not being like Oh just be natural just relax just you relax it happens it the best way to get whatever result you want is to ignore the result and be the thing that's it I know it's maddening it's so [ __ ] annoying to hear especially when you're not in a place to receive it but like it is true and that's the thing receive it yeah even if it's one breath at a time yeah and oftentimes it has to be one breath at a time because it's too big not to like too big it's like me every day now I'm like yeah I'm gonna get on that treadmill every day I'm like I want to [ __ ] get on the treadmill I need to go outside for a walk is what I need to do but I'm so extreme I'm like no if I'm gonna work out it's gonna be effective I'm like well you know what it's not effective sitting right here every single day yeah so it's like these the little steps when something it feels too big or feel like yeah oh my goodness it has to be it has to be one step at a time I have a question I have a question so we'll have two questions but um one was there when you said you woke up and it just flowed through you like a craving pregnancy craving was there anything in particular that was building before that or no and then my part two to that question like is there anything like did you feel an itch coming on or was it literally clear out out of nowhere you woke up and there it was and then the second part of the question is after having such a like spiritual experience in this creative act have you experienced something like that again and what does it feel like now yeah um so the lead up to that lead up to um writing her I'd actually stopped writing in my journal what after all those years why do you think I it's not that I had so I go through these like sometimes I'll write every single day but you know whatever yes months and then sometimes sometimes I won't write for like a couple of months right right before that I hadn't been writing my journal that's how I am with my photography like my with my camera with my cell phone all the time but yeah yeah and I hadn't I just hadn't been writing and quite quite often if I haven't written for a long time um I do get a bit of a craving of like oh I need like I need to sit and write and on the train typers so for me usually the start of that is me just sitting at the computer closing my eyes and I just type and my fingers can fly across those keyboard and I just it's so therapeutic and so just getting stuff out I never say that I just click the X and it's gone like gone and oh my gosh over my whole inside's just clenched why why don't you save it usually when I'm in that state it's a release like I don't need to I don't need to process or it read it again or it it just flows out of me and I'm like good with it it just comes out and it's kind of gone um and so yeah like so for me writing in photography is very they're just they're like my feelers like writing sometimes can feel too big it feels too expensive there's too much paper there's too much white space there's too many words there's too many thoughts there's it's too big and so then I I like my camera and looking through that lens and being in the moment and just focusing on what is exactly right in front of me is what I need bringing it back to my center it's but this is what is in front of my face right now it's oftentimes the only way I can it's just having that square force me is the only way because I'm like yeah I really resonate with the word manic oftentimes I feel Manic and like that helps yeah and it does it's just like do you combine do you combine pictures and writing it's one of my favorites I never have but you know what I I almost have this same craving again of telling telling a story with both because I've always had this thing of like it needs to be one or the other I want to be able to tell a story with words or I want to be able to tell a story just a picture but yeah like the last I don't know a few months I've really got this like oh bleeding behind yeah I started reading I started writing a book without ever having to whatever having to want without ever having to have wanted to do that yeah and I started in a way that felt like oh yeah and then it really like I think there was like I've tried forcing something and then I stopped and I'm like this book doesn't the book I'm writing isn't doesn't have pictures that's not me like look what am I doing and I'm like I'm putting a format on something that is not what am I doing and then so I stopped and now I'm like back like reflecting on you know what even what pictures I would use but like yeah I just I don't know it's so funny because I'm someone who loves like learn I'm a forever learner I am always in a course I am always in a book with like a highlighter in hand like my happy place is like I don't even like anything to do with like drinking and information oh my gosh but I I will say that like the most right things are the least amount of effort there isn't an efforting and it's what you're talking about it's just and it it's I guess it does sound infuriating right because there's hard work so it does sound infuriating for some to just come through but like I mean I would hope that it's not a triggering thing I would hope that that's something to be like it's like America I think you need to to be in that space of letting it Blow and just that exactly what you're talking about you almost like you have to you have to allow yourself into that space you have to have the confidence like there is hard work like I did 19 years of writing yeah and then she wrote like it seems like she wrote herself in three days yeah but it was 19 years in the making writing all of my emotion my motherhood story my like everything out in such a way that at times it was the hardest work I had ever done and that's why when I was like getting a few little DMS and things going oh look at you you've written a book in three days I had done the hard yards my whole motherhood and so it looked like within you know three months that I just popped this book out and I think it's the same it's the same with photography you take photos every day you refine your eye you refine your voice like what captures your attention at 20 probably isn't going to cut your attention at 43. what's important to you what your gaze is drawn to the emotion the you know like everything that is the hard work mm-hmm like it's it's not just the settings and the the type of camera you've got the hard work is devoting surrendering and going I'm just gonna I'm just gonna play with it I'm just going to explore it and for humans that's really hard because it may not have a purpose you may take all these photos and as we've said like maybe no one else is going to see them but that will the photographer for the Creator for the mother for the wife for the that that could be the hardest work you've ever done some of those photos that we can't bear to look at like if we then have a photography business and we go and photograph mothers and Families we're giving them that yeah they're giving them our experience of a really hard time and we've worked on ourselves like as we said we're the ones going first like it's hard work but I think to get to that place of where it flows it's not going to flow all the time I may never experience it again because it was such a big thing for me to experience I would love to I would love to get to that point in my photography but I'm not going to put that pressure on myself like we everything is so abundant and beautiful and creative and I think if we can just take a breath and you know just let go sometimes we just need to just be in it like a b in it in it it's the hardest work of my life I grew up with um my parents I love them dearly they love me dearly but my father who I am is child through and through he is like a very very like worrisome overprotective um like New York Italian like so I mean to this day I have to text him when I get somewhere and like oh I was on at a retreat out of town and he would text me okay I just need to this one little thing will give you the scope of the intensity of this man he was text me and asked are you good I'm like yeah I'm good and then he'd say what was your first um what was what was our first dog's name and I'm like are you what what are you talking about it didn't hit me until I was like are you checking to make sure that a a kid never doesn't have my cell phone responding on my behalf like oh my God I'm like Dad you need to get oh God but but anyway so that is that's scene set that is where I come from yeah so like this idea of like just being open to receive I struggle with it uh in a way of like I've always equated things that I love with like pain like I like in the ache like I could just my first dog that passed away two years ago now I remember um so I had him before I had kids I would look at him and just sleeping on the floor just being a dog and I would feel like someone had my heart and was like squeezing the ever loving life out of it and it's just when I see things that I love it hurts and so this idea of having your hands open and as a mother to two young boys I often say it's not for the faint of heart and I am faint of heart like it's hard and I am so emotional tonight which is really hard and but they don't think you'll find hot yes you have you can't harden yourself to it but it's it's the art like the exchange of the like in the medium of Photography it is the only thing that keeps me grounded in that like I know that to be true if I didn't have my camera I could know that intellectually but I wouldn't I would ignore it I would not like that hi to that is the only thing in my whole life that gives me the knowing that like no this is true I know every cell in your body feels like no you must hold on and you must fear this and fear that but my experience with complete strangers with my camera with my kids with my camera it it shows me every single time if you just open and let it be like people that are like oh my you know my kids don't last for more than 20 minutes so I like I'm like I don't I don't do many sessions because like I promise you just let them lead I'm just I'm gonna be in your life you're not coming to a photo shoot I'm just gonna come to your life and then that's it yeah and it's always perfect no matter what even I think that's a thing you know we'd not so you know yeah your kid might last 20 minutes let them get past that 20 minutes what happens past that what's the depth of that what's the pushing of boundaries what's the Comfort what's the they get to you know what how will they get to know you after that 20 minutes you know like I think we're very social media doesn't help it has to be quick it has to be the 20 minutes it's got to be done in you know you've got to catch the ethics of that person in like funny shot or whatever but it's literally it's our love letter according to ourselves because we have this needs to translate life and humans and you know I think creatives are deeply deeply searching and curious just about that life Essence and how to get to it and you know just that just the capture of what why yeah like what what when you're saying what happens after that 20 minutes and like do you know what you look like in those 20 minutes of that melt that like yeah what a gift to you don't know like how many times are is your child in your arms sobbing and you're comforting them and you don't even know how beautiful that looks you have no idea yeah no idea yeah oh okay perfect time to bring this up I need you to say more about your long portrait idea it made me think I don't I just need to hear more on that in college um I was doing a I was in a conceptual practices class and I came to the weird thought of like how I don't know what I look like from the back like I'm like that's just so weird I don't even know people strangers know what I look like more than I look whatever so I had um done a series where I would set my camera up and I would give like someone I was close with like the trigger and we would just be having a conversation and I'd let them they tell you this cycle I didn't so I would have them um as we're talking just like take pictures and it was just random like I mean just me like in sitting in a lab me like laying in bed like whatever and one I did never knew how animated I was speaking because when you speak to yourself in a mirror you know what I mean like never there were things about me that I'm like that's what I look like you know I love that no it was so strange but like it's just like and the pictures are nothing to write home about by any means but like it's just so interesting and like that's like another sliver of experience that I like keep in here too it's just like knowing that someone has no idea you have no idea so can you talk a little bit about your long portrait yeah so it was kind of similar because I was I'm just very in this uh I just want to be uncomfortable at the moment but like a good uncomfortable and it's exactly what you're just saying like I don't know oh God I don't know what I look like at that and I sometimes think of that I'm like God what does my hair um and so a mentoring client she I don't know how she was talking about it and she's like oh like uh I think she's in like a loop or something and she's like oh they're talking about these um portraits and I'm like oh it's a little portrait and she's like it's um you know you set yourself up in front of the camera and you have to sit there for two minutes and I'm like God that sounds terrible and she's like I know doesn't it anyway she didn't do it and she's like no one's like like no one to be activity and she's like everyone found it too confronting into um you know like really uncomfortable and I'm like I can't believe anyone did it and she's like oh yeah anyway I was like trying to just you know like it feels like an echo chamber on Instagram sometimes and I'd started a post I'm like hi I'm Melinda you know blah blah just the usual oh mum you know whatever and I thought this what's like there's literally no point to the Post people are so bored of seeing this type of post people do not care about this type of post how can I push it a little bit how can I make it creative make it interesting how can I make myself a little bit uncomfortable how can I kind of go first I suppose and then I started thinking about this a lot of portrait so I set up my camera and I'm like I sort of set myself boundaries because I thought it has to be one type or I'm just going to sit there all day and feel like like it's perfect and I had to go out somewhere and I thought you know what now is the perfect time to do it because if I do it now I'll have enough time to just like get ready and go anyway I did it I sat there and I was just like it's so ridiculous there was no one else phone but me and the dog and I'd set my camera up if I could feel shame I could feel embarrassment I could feel comparison I could feel I'm like God like am I smiling right like literally what do I look like and then I'm like I felt so uncomfortable in my body and I could the first few minutes like seconds I'm just like moving and I'm like did you do it with your phone or with your I did it with my phone because I thought if I take the time to set up my camera I'm just going to shut myself out of it yeah yeah I was like moving and I literally felt this just nervous uncomfortable energy it was so I'm so glad I did it and then that kind of passed and then I started like almost giggling because I'm like this is ridiculous like you know do yourself well you know like it's a photo it's a portrait and and then I kind of settled into it and I'm thinking oh well like whatever and then by the end and the timer went off I was a bit disappointed because I was like oh I wonder what would have happened like what would have come out or how I would have settled into my body and into like my emotion of being feeling this exposed if it was like five minutes you should do 10-minute one yeah it was so it was confronting and uncomfortable and I'm glad I did it because I did not I did not expect to feel shame or embarrassment it was just I expected to feel nervous because I was like oh like this is gonna go on Instagram but that like I was nervous of course but I didn't expect the depth of what I actually felt at the beginning right yeah right and and two I am very uncomfortable with how I speak and like listening to my own voice and so narrating over the top of that was a highly uncomfortable experience you're like let's just round it out let's just hear literally I'm here this is me and next time I'll do it in my underwear yeah let's I think would have been less confronting I don't know it was just but I'm glad that I did it and I'm glad that I got so uncomfortable and even now I I like listen up and I kind of shudder a little bit but I don't know I'm like I survive no I'm like it's done I survived it's no big deal so beautiful it's making me think of um um my coach uh she's actually in Australia Haley Carr she has this thing called the pizza challenge that I did um in the front end of a of a coaching container I did with her you have to go if you choose to accept a challenge like a mad person you go into somewhere and ask for a pizza that is not a pizza place I can't even tell you you didn't even tell you the pins and needles and the Pricks um they scalp to my toes Melinda like I went into I don't know if you know what a Men's Warehouse is but it's basically like a suit shop like what was the response what did they say I'm honestly like getting did you get it out like how did you start the conversation getting sweaty armpits just talking to you so I kind of did it the way you did it in that it's so funny I was I didn't have time to like I was driving and I already it was like the most I've ever invested in any and it was like the front end of this course and I'm like or of this coaching container and I was just like all in you know when you like say yes to yourself and you're like[ __ ] go time like it's like this Is It Anyway so I had to go pick up my son from school and like literally buy a certain time and I always get there with a minute to spare so I I didn't have more than like two minutes to spare and I'm driving and I was thinking about it and I'm like I don't have to do it she said you don't have to I'm like gosh she said you don't have to but I think there's a tricks I was at a stoplight and I literally it was like a movie and I looked to my left and I saw the suit shop and I'm like and I'm like oh my God and I'm like sitting there rocking back and forth in the car oh my God all right oh my God oh my God so I was like I'm just gonna go in I'm gonna turn and I knew where the counter was I'm like go and turn to the left ask it really quick walk right out okay all right let's do it five four three two one okay like go in worst worst thing go in no one's at the front oh God it's at the back they're helping customers and then they start and then they start pretending to look at suits oh my God it was a mess I'm not sitting there I'm like I'm freaking out on full body hives here I'm like touching the terrible suits I'm like wow very interesting and I'm like oh God all right maybe I should just leave and I'll do it another time and I was like no I can't I can't I have to do it right now so finally I walk up just honestly I have like PTSD just reliving this with you right now I started walking up and they're like can we help you look for anything I'm like no you're nervous I was having an outer body experience and I was like I don't even know how because I don't have a poker face like I really like wear my emotions but I just kind of like switched off and I was like do you guys have pizza and they're like they're like because I I didn't want to be like Rowdy or like jokey about it so I was like dead ass like I was like do you guys have pizza and they're like oh like like pizza socks like they were thinking you know dress socks with like crazy I was like no like I was talking to them like they were idiots and we're shout I'm shouting like in a few yards I wasn't even close so there's multiple people looking at me I was like no like pizza do you have oh no this is horrifying oh and like my whole like whole body and they're like no you don't have pizza I know like okay and I like turned out and walked away and I was like I fell on my back like all like everyone's disgusting and like I got in the car and I was just like in a cold sweat it did it but it's like and part of me was like so dumb the middle part of me is like yeah like what do I care like something that she says that's so beautiful is like um be willing to be a massive disappointment to everyone yeah it's just like what this these things that we feel like they're very real and like all of our feelings are very valid but also they're not they're just they're like clouds like I'm never I don't even remember the faces of those people and it was a horrifying event for me and I don't even remember what they look like and they probably wouldn't remember me if I walked in maybe they would I don't know but the whole point is that like these things that we do and like it increases our threshold like this yes and so even like with other things like shoots going on a shoot and something like crazy happens and like if you don't feel equipped to it doesn't matter you're there you're there for it and then next time that like bandwidth's a little bit wider and the same thing with like with life and it only strengthens and bolsters like I can't even oh my God it is it's just that showing up yeah it's showing up and just having a go and doing it and that's exactly like it expands your bandwidth or receiving and experiencing live and how important all of it is yes all of it because it's all connected whether or not we know in the moment or not or like I don't even think looking back it's like when you're tuned into the visceral feelings that happen inside you and you don't put any put every single thing through a filter of logic and um and I am hey I am the guiltiest person of like everything I do I love to see the 47 layers of purpose behind it and how it might translate and how it could become this and whatever but like I I think that that is just like the human urge and I think that that's not the way like I think that's just a layer of satisfaction but like you know I'm talking about like having to go at writing writing a book and a couple years ago when I didn't even have a twinkle of that intention I bought I bought a a course from someone on a writing um just because I loved him like I just he was saying words and I was so like I love you and I don't I'm buying this because I just want to listen to you even though it's not relevant to me yes I guess it is relevant now you know like I love that I love that I love I love that I just think everyone you know like that's another thing that's another thing that's in the book it's like isn't the miracle that we are here like the Stars aligned the Cycles aligned people had to meet in you know in a certain way like for us to get here is an incredible feat yeah you know like and then everyone that we come in contact with in our whole life yeah like you might not have needed his writing course but you loved him yeah so he was there for a reason like he's in your and you took that step to like enjoy him and what he offers and receive his enthusiasm and excitement and knowledge and it's so cool so cool he's so cool and it's no it really is never ending like the web that happens and it's just so ah oh my God Imagine The Joy you're giving those people in that Men's Warehouse seriously they're gonna oh they tell everyone they gotta be like this woman come in is she like okay[Laughter] like the Christmas party they'll be like do you remember that woman remember how she came in I think the clutch layer in that was the fact that I was like acting like they were like being incompetent like no no yes I mean Pizza are you okay on time I'm okay okay um uh can you tell us what you're what you're up to because you have such a beautiful mentoring business and it seems like there's a huge Focus around Clarity appropriately so can you just tell us a little bit about that yeah so when Jack was in the hospital um he just came back from theater and said he's exactly how he commanded by accident and he yeah was unconscious saying they had to fix all these bones and dress all these wounds and it's horrendous um and I was just sitting there and I was just like the level of um I suppose Clarity that came over me was just like um um I I literally have no choice now but to do the things I love in my life like there is no choice I have lived through the phone call of your child is here unconscious we thought he was in bed we thought it was in bed because we'd had an argument within the night before he wanted to go out and we were like absolutely not you need to stay home um and he went out and um got on a motorbike in a pair of short the pair of thongs and a t-shirt no helmet and yeah then we got the phone call so sitting next to his bed I was yeah I was literally like I I have to live consciously from a place of doing things that I love and at the time I was working full time at the emergency department burnt out thought I was doing the right thing like you know doing shift work so I could be here at certain points for the boys always making sure that the house was you know home for them that I wanted and I could spend time with Scott and I was burnt out like completely burnt out because I thought I was doing the right thing with you know trying to do everything all the time and it's always been very important writing photography has always been very important to me and conversation I think women in conversation I've been fascinated with like I remember sitting at my nana's dining room table with all our aunties and you know like her and you know we she'd give us these tea and little teacups and she was a you know she was like like she was she there was always food and biscuits and cakes and you know I remember sitting as a little tiny girl barely able to look over the table just like listening to all these women's conversations and I love that they had my nana had a sewing room and I remember sitting on the floor in this sewing room just like listening to my auntie's and like my cousins we'd all be sitting there and my sisters and I remember as a little girl loving that I loved listening to them and you know it's funny because when my nana died and we went back and we had to clean the house out I went into the sewing room and as a little girl that room seemed huge as a 39 year old woman it was Tiny it was so tiny but the memories that it brought back were incredible and you know after everything we went through a jug and the loneliness that I felt and the despair I'd lost so let me back up when the boys started at lunch story school there were 70 kids there it's a tiny little school and a friend of Barnard who is my dear dear friend I love her death she is very out there very you know she's like the extrovert she knows every single person ever yes she's just and so this one morning it was a Wednesday morning she said come for coffee and there's like a local coffee shop and I said oh okay anyway I got there and as soon as I walked in it was like when you walked into that Men's Warehouse instant hives instant nervousness I'm like what the [ __ ] if she was sitting at the table with sick over women and that wasn't me I thought it was Sarah and I and that was it we're Bamboozled yep and she she could see the resting betrays and she walked over to me and gave me a cuddle and whisper in my she goes it's fine and she's like held my hand and we walked back over to the table and I was just like oh I'll be a [ __ ] anyway that started that day started Wednesday coffee so pretty much from that day on until Tom less the Montessori School five years later we met for Wednesday coffee and I didn't like the women that were at that table we didn't see each other outside of that table we'd see each other at school and go oh hey that'd be it we didn't socialize it was like this little container on a Wednesday and we would just talk the conversation some days you know like some days we were just all too busy we would literally get our coffee catch up for like half an hour and then go other days God some days we'd sit there for like three hours and just talk about everything and when I was going through everything that I was going through with Jack um Tomah had just left the Montessori school so I had no need to go to Wednesday coffee it was like once your kid kind of left the school you kind of left the group almost um and there was probably four of those five of us actually that all led to school at the same time so we didn't a Wednesday coffee and we'd never caught up outside of Wednesday copy and so ever again hello oh my gosh this is so mysterious yeah like we literally haven't seen each other again since that day and we live in the same area like I've never run into them at the grocery store I haven't like I'd still go to the coffee shop yeah and I've never seen them again it was like that was our time that was our time and so those conversations were incredible like just women's conversations like women's conversations I just I will never just the depth you can go to the healing the wisdom just what the energy that passes between women when they speak is incredible and when I was sitting there I was like I'm gonna dive so deep into motherhood photography like people are not gonna know what's happening because every mother needs a photo with their kid like every mother I know is getting a bloody brother with their kid after this experience and it was totally from a place of pain absolute pain that I decided to create my business of like motherhood photography and you know once I started doing it I was like this cannot be my sole income I will not last I will burn myself out um and I was like it's not the only thing that I love like it's just not the only thing that I love my business doesn't just have to be photos and you know like I let that sit for a while and then April last year I was like um I'm gonna do my I'm doing my own thing and at the time it was VA by virtual assistant and as soon as I put the call out I'm like I'm gonna be a virtual assistant you know blah blah because I'd worked at the hospital as admin for 25 years so I was like what do you need I can help and I got clients that day like straight away and you know the universe is such a cool thing every woman that came into that those sessions not one of them came with admin work they came with conversation of just I don't know what I'm doing I'm procrastinating I don't feel good enough um oh my gosh you must read this Deepak book yes can you send me the um you know just I'm struggling with motherhood I'm struggling with creativity I don't believe in myself I have zero self-worth I am building a business um that's burning me out because I don't know what I'm doing like every single client came just with conversation wow not one kind of said can you do my email list or can you do my you know whatever and then that's when I change the wording around what I offer um because I'm like I am of more value in conversation than if I just help you with your email list once yeah women are so so incredible when they know themselves when they know why like if they've got if they've got a purpose hey just get it done they just do they just do if they feel seen and heard and acknowledged and even just one conversation just one conversation can completely change energy and mindset and just someone reflecting back what you're bringing and that's been the thing like these women come in we have these conversations and I'm not educating I'm not teaching I'm reflecting back to them like they say things and I'm like I ask them to flip question back and I can literally see on some of the faces just like an instant relief or an instant acknowledgment or a a weight it's just like oh my God like I I didn't think of that or I can't believe that came out of my mouth and you reflected that back because they would have missed it yes like it's like here's the answer and they're like put like where is the answer he look like swatting it away we think we have to pull everything apart yeah to find it but it's like you have like you know you're not like you know um to have the opportunity to hold space for women like that and have those types of conversations some days I just get off the calls in like gratitude tears yeah and just it's not about me it's not about you know I think sometimes that's the thing I struggle with mostly in my marketing because I just want to shout out just book a conversation like they're so and I know like you know in marketing everyone's like it's so impactful and so impactful of course they are but they just they're simple conversations and their simple questions reflected back but bloody hell they go deep[Music] you know it's funny I for so much of my almost all my life I'm like self-proclaimed Lone Wolf introvert if I'm in a a class project with you and I'm in a group don't worry your name's on it I'll see you next week like and just and you know I and I mean I love I love people but like I also if I am not if I don't feel like a very specific like this I can't do it more than two minutes I'm like I'm exhausted so usually I'm like alone in my I'm in my little bat cave in my basement like doing my stuff and it wasn't until um was it two years now or a year and a half now I don't know I got laid off um I was doing I was actually remote at this point after covid full-time remote uh job and they had laid me off like during it was two weeks into my second maternity leave and I was like blindsided like blindsided very Blind Side I was so bleeding and I was just like you know I'll never never again will I let myself if I'm gonna be whiplashed like I might as well be steering the ship type of thing yes so it was then when I started like going into all these um containers and it's so funny because all the the programs I was buying into I was like okay Community okay I was like okay whatever I don't care about what's the what are the PDFs where are my videos um and I I'm telling you that like from that very first program I signed up for um that I don't even remember most of the material like there are two women that I talk to like almost every day of my life like from there and continuing like now like every time I'm in a container I am just in awe of the people I meet I just realized how when you how do I say this like I you don't need to be with people that are like you to love them and it's not there that they're any less like like my family I love them to the ends of the Earth but it's not you like you can't just I don't even there's no words like for what happens when you just have a thing and you know that you see each other in a way that no words need to be spoken and you don't need to give someone the whole background of your life in in order to say this one sentence that you just really need to say exactly it's so it's incredibly powerful and now I'm like complete opposite like I'm still total introvert but like the value of this one-on-one connection and this you know to have a coach I never want to not have a coach ever am I I'm the same and I am very much an introvert but put me see I keep getting coached to do group calls group offers at this and that may come eventually make up but at this stage of where I am the the power of this one to one and like you said you know some of the some of the conversations I have with women it's literally one sentence they will I'll be like you know what are we talking about this week or it's not that great you know we'll start the conversation and it's literally one sentence and for one hour we can pull that in so many directions so deep so just the tangents that can go off just one concept or one sentence or what just and sometimes we literally sit there almost in silence and just let it all just sink in shift and yeah and breathe and that's what I think it is too is because you're not like what you're saying too it's like you're not even like um like pulling for the answers and burrowing whatever it's like just the space that opens when you reflect something back like it could even just be like oh like like what you said the relief of just like letting air out of something and it just makes space for more yeah yeah yes and and I think to we forget how connected we are as women and I think we do that Warren Wolf thing to the depths of our Despair and to be in a container where even one word or one sentence can be reflected back and you feel instantly instantly recognized and it's just this unbelievable recognition of self that you didn't know that you needed like women are incredible once they get to that space of just being able to be that vulnerable and be that honest and it doesn't even have to be deep stuff it's just like you know like we talk I talk a huge huge conversation that continually comes up is comparison and you know we'll explore that and you know like the other day it came out of you know one of my clients she just it's debilitating for her some days the comparison and you know it all just came out of just like she literally feels like she's not getting recognized and I said I can't I honestly can't even remember what I said to her and she texts me later and was like I've had to go outside because I feel I feel like my whole mind has shifted from that one conversation she's like I I haven't even had to do anything or learn anything or write anything like she was just like one that one sentence that we were talking about she just she takes me a few times now and she's like I'm almost insecure about how much I feel like I've shifted yeah yeah Kennedy especially like did that really have it because she's like it feels like it should be harder it feels like I should have done more or I should learn more or I should be you know like how could it be that simple that I come to this realization from one conversation yeah and you know it's like that story of if I if I were to let that be gone is that dishonoring the years yep torment and struggle or the relationships that have been built out of it or the I recently had this freaking realization and I'm in an NLP certification course right now we were doing something on uh beliefs and I was working with fear was one of the things that I've gotten from my father is this and I mean fear like life fear like physical like worst case scenario always still ever sit with your back to a door in a restaurant like as if I'm in like the Secret Service like I'm telling you my my partner tells me he I look like a field mouse when we're out places like seriously and you know I know but no this is I'm talking about like physical safety so so anyway I just uncovered in in that one process we did it's like oh I feel like if I let go if I fully let go of fear and I don't let that be my primary thing I I am in some way um betraying my father I am not being them uh I'm not being the mother or the uh caretaker or whatever but I can be because fear means love like if you're really debilitatingly afraid then that means um you will think of all of the worst case scenarios and you will do everything you can to try to stop that from happening and you will not be happy because you'll always know that if you're too happy then you'll drink something out like it's just like oh my God like uh I think that fear is love I remember in college when I first started dating my partner who's like was brought up very differently and just like so laid back sometimes I want to shake them that like one time I left his place and I went back to my dorm and it was at night and I was so offended that he didn't make sure I got home and I was like I could have died I could have been kidnapped and like to me that wasn't love because of what I knew it's like and you know I'm not gonna say that like something is a bird now but like also just saying that to myself like to me like up until this point in my life fear has meant love like it just like it broke open and like it's like birds flew out I'm like oh like it's like I feel tender and like compassion for myself which is weird because sometimes it's really hard for us to feel compassion for ourselves like yeah and I feel like compassion for like just the whole situation and it's just like one point and and yeah there's that very real like can it be true that like I don't have to be complete like my partner recently has been talking to a company in New Zealand and we're in Ohio right now and I'm like he's like aren't you afraid and I was like no if we if they give you the job let's go you know like yeah am I full of [ __ ] right now am I just like on the sugar pail and I'm like no why am I questioning myself like no like I just I'm not and I don't know that has to be part of it and I feel like when you're talking about your client that's how I feel I'm like yeah just someone needed to show me that but I knew it you know just like she knew it yeah yeah but it's just that awareness I think or deeper than awareness it's just this making it's making the unconscious conscious yeah so that you can go back to like making it unconscious right because it's like what's the thing it's like unconscious unskilled consciously unskilled consciously skilled unconsciously skilled because that's mastering so it's like if you can like make the subconscious that's not serving you to put it lightly conscious and just be aware of it and like live with it enough to where that it can be unconscious again but like put back in the way that feels good yes then you can just move oh my gosh yeah oh Melinda I could talk to you for bajillion years it's been I know me too oh my gosh this has been like I've cried like 47 times I I think I don't even remember what it was but I feel like we had a conversation true to the card that you pulled oh I totally feel that there was something in there I kind of I actually can't remember the message fully now but it was yeah it feels it feels on point here um can you uh I don't know uh one is there anything else lingering in your mind and heart that you wanted to touch on at all anything that's coming up for you I think we've we've covered a lot we have covered a lot do you want to ask anything else um well I don't have anything else right now hey I feel good that was an incredible conversation I feel really really good and also very Bittersweet I'm like no you're my best friend now you're not leaving oh my God it's 9 45 p.m and then I'm like oh come to New Zealand because that's like two hours from here oh my gosh you have no idea I don't know what it is I told you in my messages like back then I don't know what it is I am like a moth to a flame with anything Australia I don't even know it's so crazy um okay so can you tell us we're gonna put it on the show notes tell us where we can verbally where we can find you yes so um it's now Mrs Melinda Edwards on Instagram or just melindaedwards.com for my website okay so we will put that in the show notes and um and I'll send you um an email about the um yeah by our wins I'll give um I'll put a code in there too for my clarity workbook oh we have a workbook awesome yeah oh and what about um where's your book available on my website on your website I'll put the link there as well yeah okay um and you will come back whenever you want to have another conversation oh absolutely I'll just talk to you every week oh my gosh okay I'm gonna stop recording here